October/November 2002

A CHAT WITH LARRY HOLLAND, PRESIDENT, TOTALLY GAMES

GIGnews recruited Melanie Cambron, known by most in the industry as The Game Recruiting Goddess, to use her skills for the good of gamekind and recruit some of the big names in the industry to give us all valuable insight into what they do and how they do it.

In this interview, Melanie chats up Larry Holland, founder and president of Totally Games. A graduate of Cornell University with a bachelor’s degree in anthropology and prehistoric archaeology, Larry spent two years exploring Africa, Europe, India, and the United States on archaeological expeditions. Bone digging behind him, Larry became an original game designer in 1984 with the space simulation game, Project: Space Station for the C-64 and Apple II. In 1987 he began designing a series of WWII air combat games to be published by Lucasfilm Games (now LucasArts). After several years of leading independent projects, his team became officially incorporated in 1994 and became Totally Games in 1995. In the past several years Larry has developed the X-Wing series of critically acclaimed and best-selling space combat games set in the Star Wars universe, as well as this year’s highly rated Star Trek: Bridge Commander.

MC: How does a graduate of Cornell University with a bachelor’s degree in anthropology and prehistoric archeology come to be a game designer of space sims?

LH: A set of purely accidental circumstances introduced me to game development and it was love at first sight. That was back in 1982 having come to California to pursue my doctorate in archaeology. It was a chance encounter with an Atari 800 owner who was trying to figure out how to develop a game on his computer that piqued my curiosity, ultimately grabbed a tight hold of me, and has never let go. I was definitely attracted to the opportunity to invent things instead of just studying the inventions of others, as I would have in archaeology. Though, I wondered for years why I was drawn to building games and had switched careers. Then it struck me how similar they really are; both endeavors fundamentally strive to recreate worlds that are outside people’s everyday experience. In archaeology one strives to recreate the past in all its detail, to make a past culture come alive through painstaking research. Games have always been a way to make worlds and events come alive as well -- a world one could step into and fully experience. So, in a way, I’ve never changed careers, just career titles.

MC: With regard to your education background, recently I was having a discussion with someone about the dramatic increase in schools now offering degrees in game design. Some of the most successful people in the game industry right now have completely non-game related backgrounds. Do you think a varied education and life experience helps in creating games? And, how has your background in archeology affected your game development?

LH: For a designer, I think a varied background is essential. This was even more important years ago when development teams were tiny by today’s standards and each member had to be a jack-of-all-trades. Today’s approach has larger teams and more specialization, which has lessened the need for varied backgrounds across all team members, though the designer still needs to be the most versatile member of the team. The designer also needs to have a broad knowledge of as well as a love of most other entertainment media. Most importantly, I believe the designer needs to be extremely well read, including all types of fiction and non-fiction. Of course, the genre that a designer is working in greatly dictates what skills and knowledge are going to be the most useful. Obviously someone designing an RPG would gain benefit from reading fantasy fiction and studying world mythology. Archaeology taught me that details are important, which has carried over for making games. It’s the details that will convince people to suspend their disbelief and become totally involved in your world. So I bring the same level of research and study that I did during my archaeology days to designing and building games.

MC: In April of this year it was announced that Totally Games would once again be working with LucasArts to develop a new WWII flight combat title, in the vein of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe. What can you tell us about the new title?

LH: First thing, the new title doesn’t have a title yet so we have to continue to call it the "new title". Secondly, the new title will draw its inspiration from Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (SWOTL), but will not be a sequel of it. That inspiration is being set in a similar universe and time period as SWOTL and focusing the exotic weapons programs that the Germans were developing throughout WWII. Sorry, I cannot say anymore and have to be rather tight-lipped about the details in this early state of development. Keep watch as E3 of 2003 should be its major unveiling.

MC: The early buzz on the game positions it as a story-driven game. With World War II as the backdrop, how does your team go about creating the story? What sort of research and study is involved?

LH: Yes, the new title tells a compelling story that drives the action from mission to mission. It is also geared for the console gamer but has many features that sim lovers will find very captivating. In terms of research, thankfully, we had an extensive library of books including many aircraft manuals and pilot biographies that are a rich source of information and inspiration. This library becomes the rich ore from which we mine our story. Much of this material had been collected during the development of our previous trilogy of WWII games, but we have significantly augmented it over the past 9 months. With the resurgence of interest in WWII there has been a recent wave of wonderful new published material. One of the primary design goals is to create a plausible, believable plot and set of characters, so research is an essential and welcomed part of the design process. And, of course, many of us love to have a good excuse for buying model kits and painstakingly assembling and painting them.

MC: As more people have access to the tools that allow creation of superior graphics, games must come back around to good storytelling to set them apart. Your games, such as the recently particularly well-reviewed Star Trek Bridge Commander, are frequently noted for their exemplary stories. How do you view the current state of storytelling in games and, generally speaking, what tips can you offer on creating a good story?

LH: The current state of storytelling varies greatly, but I will make one observation or personal gripe: too many talking heads that go on and on! Most of us fall in love with whatever the new fangled techniques are, pouring them on instead of using them like rare spices. Reminds me of a kid using ketchup. I know, I have two. Most of my practical advice is about the story creation process. First off, get a skilled writer involved as early as possible; this person is as important for a game as it is for a movie project that requires the services of an expert screenwriter. Use an editor; I repeat, use an editor to separate the wheat from the chaff in your screenplay. Show; don’t tell about the events of the story. In other words use action not talking heads to convey the events. Think carefully about the method of delivering the storytelling and how it will affect the pace of the gameplay. No one likes a long, lumbering cut-scene no matter how much it cost to create. Did I already say to edit, edit, and edit some more until your story is as concise as possible? And lastly, of course, a good story is about an interesting character solving a compelling problem, without that, you’re sunk.

MC: Are there any stories or ideas that you’ve ever contemplated for a game, but decided it just couldn’t work either from a design perspective or a marketing perspective?

LH: I have always been fascinated with the late 1400’s and early 1500’s as the European civilization came into contact with their New World counterparts. It was this collision of great civilizations that triggered some of the most important events and changes of the last 1000 years. So far, I have tried unsuccessfully to base a game in this era of history as publisher interest has been very low. In many ways, it’s a very politically incorrect topic. Some day …

MC: Several of your games are based on licenses with some seriously loyal followers. It would be harder to find more hardcore fan groups than those of Star Wars and Star Trek. I read a transcript of a reported online chat you had where the question involved how many star fighters could fit in a frigate’s hangar. In your response, you mentioned that "Star Wars experts" had suggested making the ships larger. I’m sure every Star Wars or Star Trek fan considers himself or herself something of an expert. How do you go about keeping the fans happy? And how much feedback do you receive from the series fans after your games are released?

LH: A couple of tips: don’t be a perfectionist with the fans. You will absolutely never satisfy everyone all the time. Listen to them and respect them. Even more, respect the material; immerse yourself and the rest of the team in it. Establish for yourself a strong sense of what the license’s quintessential elements are and deliver on them as one of your top priorities. And, finally, have a balanced team working on licensed property. Include some fanatics who know every detail of the property and are your experts, but, just as importantly have a number of seasoned, passionate developers who know a good game when they see it instead of knowing every line, every shot from every scene of the license. As far as feedback, we have generally received tons of comments from fans from the wacky to the sublime. After all, a fan is just a shortened way to say fanatic.

MC: What do you see as the next big development in the games industry? Do you foresee any particular trends?

LH: Time to get out the Magic Eight Ball; it will be as accurate as I could be in forecasting the future of electronic games. Let me see, what does the Eight Ball say? Ah yes, I’m starting to get a strong reading from it. "There will be a continued strong dependence on licenses and tried and true concepts (read sequels) as games become increasingly costly to make." It’s also saying: "There will be a few surprise games that break through on the charts that no one could have predicted" … including myself of course. Darn, the Eight Ball is starting to fade out …

MC: When I interviewed Will Wright, he expressed an interest in how The Sims fans have customized the game and how to make this player-created content appear on your computer without having to download off the web. And Yu Suzuki said he would like to create a completely new genre of game. Games have evolved from 2 dimensional to 3 dimensional, now he wants to make a new category. Where do you see yourself headed, or would like to see yourself headed, in terms of game creation?

LH: This will probably come off as highfalutin, but I would like to steer myself more toward games that enrich and improve people’s lives as well as entertaining them. One of the most satisfying moments of my entire career was reading a letter from a particular fan. It was from a son writing about how his father was affected by playing SWOTL. His father had recently been stricken by a stroke and had become partially paralyzed. He was recovering the use of his hands and arms by spending hours upon hours using a joystick while playing SWOTL. This type of impact is the ultimate reward.

MC: Game developers come and go, but you’ve been at it – and successfully so – for almost 20 years. How do you balance your president-of-the-company duties with your creative director/lead designer/project lead/programmer duties? (Talk about multi-tasking!) And if you could narrow your success down to three key elements, what would they be?

LH: Juggling my various duties is definitely an ongoing challenge. I have learned to structure my time so I am wearing certain hats at certain pre-arranged times. Additionally, I maintain a close watch on my priorities, re-evaluating them daily so I can switch hats as needed. But, ultimately, I have surrounded myself with many highly capable people who more and more take on a lion’s share of various responsibilities so I am not trying to do so much. And, finally, the elements that I think have been helpful in my career: an intense and often irritating commitment to quality, a love of building games even more than playing them, and playing my own games constantly, striving to look at them with fresh eyes everyday.

BIO
Melanie Cambron is a recruiter for game industry leaders such as THQ, Midway, and Infogrames. Featured in Game Design: Secrets of the Sages for her game industry knowledge, she also wrote the foreword to the successful book, Game Programming with Direct X 7.0 and its follow-up. Melanie speaks each semester at the University of Texas at Austin and the University of North Texas on the game development industry, and is frequently interviewed by major media such as the Dallas Morning News for her industry expertise. She also serves as a consultant to the City of Austin's Interactive Industry Development Committee. Learn more about the "Game Recruiting Goddess" at www.melaniecambron.com or contact her directly at
melanie@melaniecambron.com

Past Interviews:
Interview With Bruce Shelly
(August/September 2002)
Interview With BigSky Interactive
(July 2002)
E3 Panel Highlights: Yu Suzuki and Will Wright
(June 2002)
Interview With Elonka Dunin
(May 2002)
Interview With Will Wright
(April 2002)
Interview With Stevie Case and John Romero
(March 2002)
Interview With Richard Garriott
(February 2002)
Interview With George Sanger
(January 2002)
Interview With Josh Resnick
(December 2001)
Interview With Paul Steed
(November 2001)
Interview With Marc Saltzman
(October 2001)
Interview With Rick Hall, Senior Producer, Ultima Online
(September 2001)

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