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July 2002
 A
Chat with BigSky Interactive
GIGnews recruited Melanie Cambron,
known by most in the industry as The Game Recruiting
Goddess, to use her skills for the good of gamekind and
recruit some of the big names in the industry to give us
all valuable insight into what they do and how they do
it.In
this interview, Melanie chats up game developers
BigSky
Interactive, including Co-Founders, Art Studio
Director, Matt Scibilia, and Producer Billy
Cain. While perhaps a new game developer name, the
people behind BigSky have held senior positions on some
of the biggest and best-known titles in the industry.
The 80+ titles they have collectively shipped cross many
genres and media platforms.
But the real story of BigSky is one of inspiration
and dogged determination. Overcoming admittedly daunting
odds, Austin-based BigSky rose from the ashes of
Kalisto’s bankruptcy and, in the face of stiff
competition, succeeded in landing one of the most
popular licenses today.
Not only are they a genuine success story, they’re
also snappy dressers, and some of the nicest guys
around.
MC:
First, let me just say, you guys easily took
best-dressed honors at this year's E3. The BigSky shirts
looked great and really stood out from the crowd. Many
game publishers, like Blizzard and EA, obviously put a
great deal of effort behind corporate branding. Many
game developers, on the other hand, don't seem to make
quite the same effort to "brand" their companies. When I
saw BigSky in their yellow button downs monogrammed with
BigSky logo, my first thought was "now, there's some
effective branding". Do you think that creating a
corporate "brand" is important for game developers? And
why don't more developers seem to be trying to do that?
BSI/Matt:
Actually, Billy was the man with the plan for our
shirts. The rest of us concentrated on reinforcing the
brand identity in our logo designs, brochures, demo
presentations and signage. We have several of our senior
staff members from the marketing and advertising
industries, before games, and we understand the
importance of presenting the most cohesive image
possible. This image conveys not only the
professionalism of our organization, but enables the
client base to recognize our company and our products,
especially in light of the multitude of competitors out
there. The image branding is extremely important to our
group for these reasons, but I can understand why many
small groups have not been able to make it a priority,
the time and effort it takes to develop and refine the
company image takes away directly from actual product
development. Without product, the image is hollow.
BSI/Billy:
To be honest, my goal was to reinforce the fact that
anyone that deals with us is dealing with a professional
group of developers. Presenting a ‘complete image,’ from
logo design to professional attire (at the appropriate
time) shows our clients that they can trust us to handle
their projects.
MC:
The birth of BigSky is something of a phoenix from
ashes story. Can you share the history of BigSky from
Daylight to Kalisto to today and your respective
positions in the companies?
BSI/Matt:
Daylight began with three industry veterans: Mark Day,
Anthony Morone and David Nielsen, with the early days
operating from their homes. I joined them after the
first couple of years as an art contractor, and then we
began the process of building our first team in our
Austin studio. Over the next couple of years many
changes occurred. We went from 4 to almost 40 employees;
we were purchased by Kalisto Entertainment; we expanded
our California studio; we brought on Billy Cain as
Producer, Stretch Williams as Austin Studio Manager, and
Dave Downing as Producer; we worked on two high-profile
titles on PS2 and GameCube; Kalisto suffered a
bankruptcy; we kept chugging along with self-sustaining
cash flow from our contracts and opted for our freedom
again, forming BigSky Interactive. The five founding
members are Anthony Morone, Matt Scibilia, Billy Cain,
Dave Downing and Stretch Williams. We also have two of
the finest development teams in the industry, with many
8+ year veterans, and several 13+ year senior staff
members.
BSI/Billy: I
joined the company last year (2001) just before the
contract for SpongeBob Squarepants (Playstation 2
and GameCube) was signed, so my version can only support
Matt’s from the perspective of Kalisto to BigSky
Interactive. Since the bankruptcy of Kalisto, we have
been working diligently to keep everyone together and
focused upon the future of BigSky Interactive. My role
as Producer is to both keep the team on track and
healthy as well as act as liaison between BigSky and THQ,
the publisher of SpongeBob.
MC: A
recent issue of a UK game dev magazine had as its cover
story "Who Wants to be a Millionaire: How to sell your
development studio". Many game developers view
acquisition by a large corporation as hitting the lotto
-- stock options, new machines, paid GDC and E3
registration -- others view it as time to put the ol’
resume together. What was your initial reaction to
learning about the acquisition of Daylight by Kalisto?
BSI/Matt:
We had an ongoing relationship
with Kalisto for a couple of years before the
acquisition. A sort of strategic partnership, as Kalisto
wanted to work with a seasoned dev team here in the
States, assisting them in getting recognition in our
markets, and also to work with the technologies they
were generating in France. Rather than looking at the
acquisition as a payday, we saw it as a natural
progression of our professional relationship with
Kalisto/France.
BSI/Billy:
From what I know of the employees at the studio, it was
seen as a good thing, especially since they were going
to help us by funding a new office in California, and by
providing additional technology for our games, if we
needed it.
MC: As
many know, Kalisto is currently in bankruptcy. What was
your initial reaction to hearing that bit of news? And,
then, what specific factors helped make the decision to
continue developing? The way I heard the story – and
this could be the next great game industry legend -- is
that when Kalisto filed for bankruptcy you guys just
decided to keep working on the games. You had already so
much done, that you just refused to just walk away. Why
did you do it?
BSI/Matt: We
could say that Kalisto/Austin had a certain autonomy
from the beginning under the Kalisto name. We were
essentially Daylight Productions, DBA KalistoUSA. Our
accounts and contracts were completely separate from the
French office, and, more importantly, our cash flow was
also completely separate. Within the year of the Kalisto
purchase of Daylight, the Austin office was entirely
self-sufficient. Our relationships with our clients, all
billables and payables, accounts and staffing, were
controlled from the Austin offices. We were the ones
obligated to complete our contracts in good faith for
our clients, no matter what the current state of affairs
in France. Taking this responsibility seriously,
weathering the resultant difficulties and seeing these
projects through were conscious decisions on the part of
every team member at BigSky Interactive. We take our
reputation and track record very seriously, and will do
all that is possible to deliver on our promises to our
clients.
BSI/Billy:
It was very sad to hear the news. Nicolas (the president
of Kalisto) was trying everything he could to keep the
company afloat, and I mean everything. All the employees
of Kalisto France had to go through that nightmare. That
sucked.
The bottom line as to
why we wanted to continue developing our games is that
we want to stick together. We have an awesome group of
talented people here that deserve to finish these
games!! After all, it was the team’s idea to go after
SpongeBob, and their extra effort paid off by convincing
THQ and Nickelodeon that we ‘understood’ the license, so
to just drop the games and walk away would just be too
much heartbreak.
It also helped that THQ wanted the games so much that
they were willing to be understanding of our situation
during this time. Truly, having a publisher that is that
cool made that jump a little easier to do.
MC: When
you made the decision to keep it going, what were your
first steps? Were you at the local Circuit City buying
computers? How did you logistically and practically
speaking set up shop, or in this case, changing
shopkeepers?
BSI/Matt:
While not going into details, this studio has some
extremely talented senior managers who have kept cool
heads through the many chaotic transitions that have
transpired over the company’s history, from Daylight to
BigSky. If you had been watching from the outside you
would not have noticed a glitch in production. We
maintained our assets, contracts, accounts and staff
through all transitions, with little distraction.
BSI/Billy:
To be honest, the worst part of the changeover was
dealing with all of the details (the same ones that Matt
just said he wouldn’t go into). New bank accounts,
dealing with the French government over the bankruptcy (oy!),
and lots of dealings with our legal staff to make sure
that our "i"s were dotted and our "t"s were crossed. It
made it a lot easier on all of us because we have a
great support staff that was 100% focused on getting us
up and running! We were able to keep our focus on making
the games and they would tell us what hurdle was coming
up next. But as far as the teams are concerned, we have
tried to make it as seamless as possible.
MC: I
want to talk a bit about the SpongeBob Squarepants
license. Against significant odds and in the face of
stiff competition you guys managed to land this license.
How did you do it? And, for the benefit of other
developers, can you explain a bit about how the
licensing process works?
BSI/Matt:
When we were working on the Jimmy Neutron games for
Mattel, then THQ, word got back to us through the
grapevine, that THQ was looking for a team to do
SpongeBob. The lights went on in our minds and hearts!!
We can do this! We want to do this! A handful of people,
mostly artists, took the technology that we had been
working on and created a full, working level of
SpongeBob in two weeks, with gameplay platforms,
animations, collection of items and a working HUD! One
artist, Damon Shelton, generated 11 character models in
three days!! Janet Oh, created the environment, and Tony
Salvaggio animated SpongeBob. Fred Mizac, Lead
Programmer on Jimmy Neutron, coded our demo. We also had
a solid game design doc and project plan generated as
support for the game assets.
While the competition may have had a design doc or
some models, maybe some superior to our quick work
versions, we had a full, playable demo working on the
target platform in the form of a PS2 disc!! We proved we
had the talent, vision and technology to realize the
client’s franchise. Although this put us on the list of
potential developers of SpongeBob, it was through
extensive negotiations and immediate responsiveness to
the client’s revisions that eventually won the contract
for our team.
Working on established, licensed content is the
foundation of our business at BigSky Interactive. Being
able to tie in with either a movie or television
franchise is extremely powerful, in that the marketing
presentation for larger licenses ensures the viability
of good product in that the money is spent to get the
product in front of its target audience, maximizing its
sales potential. Most of the successful titles in our
industry fall into this category. However, this doesn’t
preclude the creation of new IPs (intellectual
properties) for our company, just that we will make sure
we have the ability to complete our core business as a
foundation for new development.
BSI/Billy:
Well, unfortunately I had no part in landing this deal,
so I will let Matt tell the story. But the real heart of
the truth is that it was because the team loved
SpongeBob, and they wanted it so badly. They made a demo
using the other team’s (Jimmy’s) engine and showed up at
CGDC 2001 and knocked everyone at THQ out!
MC: What
can you tell us about the game and other BigSky
projects?
BSI/Matt: I’ll
let Billy describe the SpongeBob product. Other than the
Jimmy Neutron and SpongeBob games, we are
developing a new, internal IP called Terminal Code
for the Xbox and PS2 consoles.
Terminal Code is
a single-player action/adventure game (like Resident
Evil) in which a scientist battles cyber-terrorists
within the Codescape (like The Matrix) in order to
rescue dignitaries who can avert a World War. The
player-character uses stolen time slices to effect
changes in the world, altering level geometry, unlocking
items and causing enemies to de-rez (perish). These
original yet familiar elements have never appeared in
this genre before, and provide players with a fresh
experience beyond a typical "kill the zombie" premise.
We are also developing several other internal titles,
while pitching licensed titles for many of the major
name publishers in the industry. Obviously, our NDAs
(non-disclosure agreements) with these potential
partners prevent us from discussing these projects
further at this time. But keep an eye out for news on
our website,
www.bigskyinteractive.com.
BSI/Billy:
You play SpongeBob, who wakes up one "normal" day to
play catch with Gary. When Gary brings back a bottle,
SpongeBob accidentally frees the Flying Dutchman! Once
on the loose, the Dutchman hypnotizes SpongeBob’s
friends one by one, so SpongeBob must find the 7 lost
treasures of the Flying Dutchman in order to defeat him
in a climactic battle on the Dutchman’s own ship!! It’s
really a cute game, full of interesting things to do.
It’s aimed at 10-year-old kids and we’re having a blast
making it. There are 7 unique "worlds" divided into 28
separate levels and they are really, really cool!
MC:
Members of the BigSky staff have worked on some of the
best-known titles ever made: Civilization, Tribes,
Ultima, Wing Commander, Crusaders & Warriors of Might
and Magic, just to name a few. How do you get that kind
of team together and how do you keep it together?
BSI/Matt: You start
with a core of experience and honesty, which is then
leveraged into a community of true believers in your
process and goals. Setting up a production studio that
facilitates the inclusion of the ideas and abilities of
all of your team members, is of paramount importance.
Studio management is meant to generate an environment
for creativity, problem solving and development. The
staff then populates this world, affecting its growth
through their commitment to its core principles without
stifling innovation and the desire for the success and
improvement of our process. Our core teams have a
combined experience and intelligence to create a solid,
professional production pipeline for game development
that results in an efficient, innovative, cost-effective
and aesthetically pleasing product for the client. For
senior staff, the most important feature of our process
is "empowerment", with each member of the group enabled
to affect positive change in every aspect of production.
You don’t get that everywhere in our industry, but it is
also not unique to BigSky Interactive. Many smaller
developers are finding it possible to acquire senior
talent when they offer similar environments. We are also
able to build this team through our many contacts with
former colleagues looking for a world like ours, or who
know someone who wants to plug in and help us attain our
combined potential for success.
BSI/Billy:
There’s not a lot to add after that!! We are fortunate
enough to get to build a world that we want to live in.
Additionally, I would like to say that one of the best
ways to keep teams happy is to be as honest as you
possibly can and give them as much information as you
can.
MC:
GIGnews recently received a question from an aspiring
game developer that asked "What sacrifices will you have
to make to even get published?" BigSky seems
particularly suited to answer that question. What
sacrifices can developer hopefuls expect to make?
BSI/Matt:
The developer who is going to succeed in this industry
must be willing to sacrifice time, ideas and personal
ego, among other things, to work with a group of like
minded team members for a higher purpose, with a group
ego, to reach the goal of a published product on the
shelf. But along with those sacrifices, the developer
must continue to contribute with enthusiasm and energy
to sustain not only themselves, but also the team and
the client. Game development is a difficult process that
calls for strong, focused teams to succeed by way of
experienced management of effort. You may even have to
sacrifice money and security to see the game through to
its successful conclusion. It is each individual’s
choice as to how far they can and are willing to go. Oh,
and it helps to be an insomniac. Who needs sleep,
anyway, when we are creating games!
BSI/Billy:
If you have never worked on a game, probably the biggest
shocks you will have are: 1) it’s broken for most of the
development time, so you have to put a lot of faith and
trust in your team; 2) it is rare to truly enjoy games
that you worked on, after it is all said and done (due
to the extreme amount of playtesting you must do – and
you know the plot, so it’s no surprise); and 3) it may
cause you to look at games differently; instead of ‘why
didn’t they just do this better,’ you may begin to
understand that not all games are done ‘because someone
thought it was a good idea,’ but rather because there
are profits and deadlines to be met.
All told, I believe that the most important things
that anyone interested in getting into the business
needs to understand is that they need to be excellent
communicators and that they will have to be flexible (on
a daily basis). When you work on larger and larger
teams, it is very important to have these skills, as
your career may hinge upon whether you can adapt to a
new tool quickly or whether you can communicate well
with the new programmer or artist down the hall. It’s
that important.
MC: If
you could narrow BigSky's success down to three key
elements, what would they be?
BSI/Matt:
Experience, Adaptability, and Tenacity.
BSI/Billy:
Couldn’t agree more. It’s most important to round all
those up into one heading that says, "We get games…
done."
MC:
Finally, as a fellow Texan, I asked Richard Garriott in
a previous interview his opinion of best Mexican food in
Austin. I'm not asking you that question. Rather, I want
to know what Billy Cain considers the most precious item
in his Star Wars collection.
BSI/Matt: I
would think the most precious item in Billy’s collection
is the next Star Wars toy he is going to buy…
BSI/Billy:
That always seems to be the case; I’m always on one hunt
or another. But honestly I don’t have one particular
item that is the most precious – I like all my Star Wars
toys as a group, mostly the 3¾" ones. The ones I had as
a kid are emotionally the best, for sure. But let me
tell you about the ones I haven’t gotten my hands on
yet. Drop me an email - maybe we can trade!
********************
BIO
Melanie
Cambron is a recruiter for game industry leaders
such as EA, Sony, and Infogrames. Featured in
Game Design: Secrets of the Sages for her game
industry knowledge, she also wrote the foreword to the
successful book, Game Programming with Direct X 7.0
and its follow-up. Melanie speaks each semester at the
University of Texas at Austin and the University of
North Texas on the game development industry, and is
frequently interviewed by major media such as the Dallas
Morning News for her industry expertise. She also serves
as a consultant to the City of Austin's Interactive
Industry Development Committee. Learn more about the
"Game Recruiting Goddess" at
www.melaniecambron.com or contact her directly at
melanie@melaniecambron.com
 Past
Interviews:
E3 Panel Highlights: Yu
Suzuki and Will Wright
(June 2002)
Interview With Elonka Dunin
(May 2002)
Interview With Will Wright
(April 2002)
Interview With Stevie
Case and John Romero
(March 2002)
Interview With Richard
Garriott
(February 2002)
Interview With George
Sanger
(January 2002)
Interview With Josh Resnick
(December 2001)
Interview With Paul
Steed (November 2001)
Interview With Marc
Saltzman (October 2001)
Interview With Rick Hall,
Senior Producer, Ultima Online (September 2001)
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